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Making a Difference:
Educational Practices That Work!

February 29 - March 2 | Hershey Lodge and Convention Center

Let’s Go APE: Supervision of Adapted Physical Education Programs for Students With Disabilities

03/01/12, Hershey, PA


REBECCA FOGLE: Great, thank you so much for being here today. How many of you were in Martin Block's section right before this? Okay, so a fair amount of you. Okay, that's good to know. What I
said to him after his session was, oh, phew, our session is going to build beautifully on yours. It's like we planned it that way. We didn't, but it will work out really nicely. So Frank
and I are a part of an advisory council on adapted physical education here in Pennsylvania. And we started meeting about two years ago. Very late in 2009 was when our group first came
together. And since then, we've really learned so much and we're starting to put things into place to make things better here in Pennsylvania. Our lens at looking at this today is how to
supervise special education programs. Frank and I both have background as being special education administrators, and part of what we learned through this process is how we were good and how
we were not good at doing that in the field. So we're going to try to shed some light on ways to think about that as you consider your programs. Oh, now I went too far. All right, so I
mentioned that our group started meeting in December of 2009. So our first real foray into getting information out or from people was actually at the PDE conference two years ago. And if any
of you were here for that conference, you may remember that on the center tables at one of the big, giant, full group meetings upstairs, there was a little questionnaire about adapted PE.
And it had just a couple of very general questions about what do you know about APE, or what have you heard, or what do you think? That was -- came out of our group trying to just gather
some information from the field. And that helped us kind of clarify some of the things that we thought might be misunderstandings in the field or things that just weren't really being -- you
know, happening in Pennsylvania. So we started that. Additionally, in 2010 we also put out a survey to all LEAs in the state of Pennsylvania. So if you are a supervisor or director of
special education in a district, you may remember seeing that. It came electronically and it was just, again, a series of questions about how things were being provided in your particular
school district around students with disabilities and adapted physical education. We also sent a similar electronic questionnaire out to IU directors, trying to get information from IUs as well.
So we gathered all that information, again, to help us really pinpoint, are we correct in what we think are the correct understandings and misunderstandings around the field in
Pennsylvania? So after we had done all that, a pen link went out. Again, so if you received those pen links or your superintendent may pass it to you if you're a special ed person or a
teacher, that information talked about the work of our committee and how we were trying to really increase the work around adapted PE. So from all that, our committee then made up a
training plan. So that included ways to get information out, ways to improve practice in Pennsylvania around adapted phys ed. Additionally, through PaTTAN we took some of the highlights of
what we felt were really the main points that came from all those surveys and information that we gathered, and made it into a publication, which you may have seen before. If not, you should
have gotten one when you came in the door. If you did not, we have extras here. This publication is sort of a large bookmark-y thing, is designed for people just to give quick, little
tidbits of that information. so if you would like more of those to share with a training group or to make sure that it's getting into the hands of the people that need to have it in your
district, please feel free to take extras here. You may also access that through the PaTTAN website, And if you got into the educational initiative section of adapted
physical education, you can link to that resource. We also have in that section videos that have come out of speakers that have come to our conferences. This video will be up on there at
some point, as well as Dr. Block's who was just here. We also have video from Dr. Garth Tymeson, who spoke last year at PDE conference as well. We also have the conference from two years
ago, which was a panel of higher education folks that are part of this group too. And additionally, we have two sessions from Dr. Lauren Lieberman, who presented at our Low Incidence Institute
this past summer. This summer, we will also have another -- two other speakers coming to our Low Incidence Institute, talking about the role of the adapted physical education teacher,
as well as how it is and isn't like physical therapy, occupational therapy, special education, how those roles intermingle but are different. So those sessions will be coming up in August. I
want to say August 6th is the actual day, but that week is our Low Incidence Institute, 6, 7, 8, 9 of August. There's a date saver upstairs at the PaTTAN table too if you need it. Okay,
so the work of our group started out by really looking at what is the regulatory language around physical education? It gets lost pretty often that it is actually a direct service and not a
related service. And I can tell you as a special ed administrator in the past, I didn't always recognize that distinction. So if that's not something you're aware of or realize, it is
something that we really need to think about. Physical education is spelled out in IDEA as a direct service. And here is some language around that. So we know that each child with a
disability has to be provided with physical education. That's very clear in the law. So when we hear some of these stories about kids just sitting over in the bleachers and watching and
doing some other things, that really flies in the face of what IDEA says. And I can also tell you that as a parent of a child -- well, not a child, now a young adult with disabilities, when
he was in school, we worked very closely with the phys ed teachers, who were wonderful to him. And we planned some really good things. But you know, it was never done through his IEP. He
never had like specific goals. So Ernie asked me previously if he had that in his IEP or a real program for that. And I said, you know what, no. We just kind of flew by the seat of our pants. And
for him, it was wonderful. But if I knew then what I knew now as a parent and as a special ed professional, I would have done things very differently. But it worked out fine. He's now
an assistant coach for a basketball team not far from here. He can't play the game competitively at that level, but he knows it and he's able to participate in that way. And the coach that
he's now working with on a collegiate level was the high school coach when he was in school. So this has been just a great opportunity. These two meld together and had a great rapport and
relationship, and it continues today. So we know that they need to have this opportunity, and then there's those couple of lessons. Because you know, like all laws, there's always some, you
know, little caveat we have to add in. It's never that totally cut and dry. But we do know that if a child is full-time in a separate facility or the child needs specially designed
instruction, you know, those are things that we need to look at. All right, so one of the things that Frank and I came up with talking about this is the more we learned about it ourselves
and talked about it, the more we came to wrap our heads around the fact that, you know what, adapted PE as a direct service, that's not really different than math or reading or those other
direct service things that we provide. Martin Block talked a lot about how we can do more inclusive practices in PE classes. And everything he said -- that's why I sat in the back of the room and
I thought, this is exactly what we're saying. It really needs to be treated exactly like any other good instruction, any other good teaching. So it has to be a part of the special education
process. So we talked a lot about how do students qualify for these services? I think it often is just kind of hit or miss. Like if a student has a real extreme disability, maybe we're more
apt to say, oh yeah, they need adapted PE. But I don't think it's really discussed in IEP team meetings the way it should and could be. So that's another message we want to get out there,
that it does need to be do that -- to do that. And in order to determine what those services are, let's see, how do we find out if a student requires reading instruction? Well, we constantly
say, give me the data, right? We need to have some type of assessment. Phys ed is really no different than that. We need to collect information to make decisions so the IEP team can say, yes
indeedy, this kid needs this and we know that because we have this data. So then people will often say, well, we don't have any assessment tools. We don't know how to do that. Well, you
might have some teacher checklists. You might have some of these more standardized things. This is not an exhaustive list, but it's just an example of some of the types of assessment data
that are out there. We also have, again on the PaTTAN website, if you go to the adapted PE page, there's a link to resources. And we have quite a few professional organizations listed and
some other ways to get in there and look at specific assessment tools. So if you don't have them in your district or you're not sure if you do and you need to go back and talk to your PE folks,
there is a way for you to find out some of that information. So again, like other types of academic direct services, we know that we're always talking about a continuum of student
needs. So it's possible that a student with a disability would be meeting or exceeding the PA standards for health safety and phys ed. Certainly just because someone has an IEP doesn't
automatically mean they need an adapted phys ed program. But you may have some students who aren't meeting them and need some remediation. Or you might have some students that need
something or have some health-related things, or perhaps a 504 plan. Or you may have students who are not needing them and have disabilities. And we know in special education, you have to
meet that two-prong thing, right? You have to have a disability that's recognized by the state and be in need of specially designed instruction. So PE is the same idea. So as we
mentioned, one of the big misunderstandings out there in the field is that it is not a related service, physical education is not a related service. However, it may work closely with some of
your related service providers. So for instance, a physical therapist may be working with a student on some very specific goals that lend itself beautifully to the adapted phys ed program.
So those two folks, those two professionals really need to be working together. You may have some academic goals. One of the things that came out in Martin Block's session earlier is
that even things like some counting and some math things, you know, there's a lot of reading rules. There's a lot of things that a student might have on an academic IEP that certainly lend itself
to being addressed in the PE setting. It's all about that professional communication and the IEP team really being able to share information and work together. And in red is some
language that was new in IDEA 2004 that talks about how if a school does not provide, let's say, in kindergarten to all students physical education, that does not mean you have to provide it
to a student with a disability. However, having said that, it always comes back to the IEP team to determine what that child requires in order to meet that FAPE standard, that free and
appropriate public education. So if you provide PE class to all second graders in your building, then yes, you must provide that to students with disabilities. You can't exclude them from
that. If you don't provide it at a certain grade level, you're not automatically obligated to provide that, but it is up to the IEP team to make that determination if they require it or
not. Okay, now I'm going to turn it over to Frank that's going to talk more specifically about how we supervise those programs and think about it in that way. FRANK REPANSHEK: Thank you,
Becky. If you paid attention to the first eight slides, you really have the essence of what we need to talk about today. So I'm not telling you to leave, but that's really the meat of it.
And I talk about it as supervisors, but even as teachers and, you know, building administrators, anyone who's in the position to affect the student's education, we're all part of this. And you
see, we're expected to be decisive. Becky, you can go ahead. But you know, we have to be decisive, yet flexible. And that's a really tough spot for us. You know, this one, one size fits all,
except for you of course. And that's kind of like us, you know? Some things are -- let me just say that if you want to hear expert, you know, information on adapted physical education,
then something like Dr. Block's was far more informative than myself. I am not an expert on this topic. But I do come from a supervisory background where, you know, it's important to have
that continuum and to make sure that every option is considered. I feel physical education has a little bit of an advantage, and I'll talk about this more later, because it's more apparent.
It's more obvious because some things are more obvious than others. Okay. So -- and if you can read that, it says, I know what you're thinking. Why is she the only one with the jacket on. Okay. But some
things are more apparent than others and they're more obvious, and they just stick out. It doesn't explain it, but it's true that some things are more obvious than others. Okay. Some disabilities
are more obvious than others. So, and I think in a way, it's what gives adapted physical education the edge, because it's those things that can be seen, okay. Now in here, here's a
situation. A student in -- with students with autism, there are students with autism in this classroom. Can you find them? Can you find any of the students with IEPs from looking at that?
They're there and they're learning, but you can't. And it's those students that have, you know, the cognitive, the neurological impairments, the processing issues that are harder to find. And
that's going to go back a lot to what Becky said about the assessment and getting to the root of things. Now let me just say this. Just because maybe the physical impairments, the physical
education related things are a little bit easier to see doesn't mean -- I am very impressed. I was getting involved with -- this adapted education committee was great for me because I've
seen how these people from like the Council for Adapted Physical Education really flew with this, and the strides they're making and the methods they're using to identify and program.
Okay. But just to give you an idea, this is the 60s, okay? And you can just read this about Eunice Kennedy Shriver. And you know, she was John Kennedy's sister-in-law, or sister, excuse me. But
if you can see this, her emphasis is physical education. And it's a wonderful thing, so please, in no way am I saying that, you know, well, PE got a free ride on this one. But you know, this
was a person in a very influential position and in the 60s. You can change it. But as you can see, you know, it's a wonderful thing and it brought students' strengths and ability to succeed
and grow. But through physical education, the 60s were a big year for that. If you went to school in recent years, you may have had to take the president's physical fitness test, and that
was whether you liked it or not, whether you wanted to run that mile, that was Johnson, Lyndon Johnson right after. He's the guy that initiated that. There were a number of special events in
the Olympics, the Paralympic games that started. The 60s was, you know, as much an era for change in many things, political change. It was an era for physical education, making the strong
American, strong body, strong mind. You know, it was the Cold War, beat those Russians, you know, by making strong bodies. But just look what Eunice Kennedy Shriver was. And look, if she was
a scientist or a novelist, the things that may have happened. Maybe there wouldn't be Special Olympics. You know, it might be the National Special Science Fair. I mean, any of these things.
But you know, she was a bright woman. She was -- she was in a position of political importance. And you know, she got that done. And thank god, it's been great. But you know, I think now
we're starting to realize that, okay, but let's look at the whole child. Let's not just be satisfied with -- you know, and this isn't just today, but over the past number of years. You
know, I just think of our Lebanon life skill students. You know, when we first -- when I first started supervising and teaching there, you know, it was in one class, all day with the teacher. You
know, this is going back to days when there was even nap time for high school kids. I mean, what the heck? You know, and now these kids are doing pre-algebra. You know, so it's fantastic the
changes. And it's making sense to them. You know, so it's applying to their regular world, so it's a life skills curriculum, but we're not happy just to have them sitting and coloring and
the like. So things are changing. But okay, but before we consider adapted physical education, we need to look at adapted education in general. Okay. And maybe this is a microcosm of the
world of individual education. Okay. You know, there's separate classes, which are good. There's included same physical education. You know, this looks like my class that I used to teach.
And but, you know, it's all one group. Okay. And these kids are, you know, included, having fun together. There's a place for the whole thing. But like Becky said in the beginning, it's that
continuum. But on all this, it's not easy. So just to tell you that I understand where you are, okay? You know, we're in a conundrum. Who's driving the special ed bus? Is it PDE? Is it
lawyers? And this is where it's coming from my personal experience. You know, because we are getting a mixed message, all right? You know, at Lebanon, we went through our LRE improvement.
You know, too many kids in the 60% category, you know. And you know, and then, you know, the Gascon suit kind of forced our hand on some of those things. But you know, PDE was saying, Frank,
you need to include kids more. You need to get them out. You know, you need to have kids -- you know, get them out of the special classes, okay? But the lawyers and through due process. You
know, just last year Andy Faust spoke. And you know, after all the effort and all the time and all the support we have from both PaTTAN and from our IU, you know, in co-teaching, well, I
don't -- he doesn't really support co-teaching. And the fact of the matter is that for any of you, I think this might be true. It was definitely true for me. The majority of situations where
I have -- and I wouldn't even call it a conflict, but I'll call it a conflict with a parent, is they want more services. You know, it's usually not parents that want less, but they want more for
their student. So this does create a conflict for us, okay? But there's solutions to this. To get students -- the reason that students do not participate in the least restrictive
environment, and I believe this, is not due to their disability. It's because we're not doing it right. And that's where more is going to be my focus on adapted physical education, adapt the
education in general, and education. We have to learn to do it right, okay? So what makes physical education different from other content areas? I did talk -- these people are good at
what they do. They've made an art and a science of what they do. You know, it's not just that -- you know, we'll, you know, use a soft sponge ball instead of a nice, hard rubber ball for, you
know, knocking guys down. But you know, there's really -- I mean, I'm learning this. There's quite a science to it, okay? Are they more adept at evaluating and instructing students with
disabilities? And I'll tell you what, in some ways they are. You look, an adapted physical education teacher comes through with an adapted physical education degree in some cases. An adapted
social -- I was an adapted social studies teacher, adapted math teacher, adapted English teacher, and I took -- I did not have one -- I shouldn't -- well, except for my gen ed courses in
college, I did not have one preparatory course to teach a content area. Now that's changing. It's getting better. But you know, it's no wonder that adapted phys ed is kind of on a higher --
a plateau right now. Because they're training people for that, okay? So should we have adapted social studies, adapted art, adapted music, okay? Or do we already have them? And in many
cases, we may. Okay, but adapted instruction and assessment across every curricular and co-curricular area, and every regular and special learning environment. And this is the critical, this
is the critical, you know? These are the changes we have to make. And I'll talk about some of the mistakes we make later. And it's critical that every member of the district instructional team
must be prepared to work with these students. Every principal, okay, should know the special needs students. You know, if you were having issues where your building administrators are not
getting to IEP meetings, that's a big issue. That's a big problem. I know at Lebanon, we are very fortunate. As a matter of fact, it's interesting because our high school principal has just
retired, our current high school principal, our middle school principal, and two of our elementary principals were special education teachers. So you know, it made -- as a supervisor, it
made it a little bit easier for me because, you know, they know the business and they understand it. Okay. So we can just go through this and look at these. What do we need to enable to do
these things? These are things that I think we have to be able to do. And this is one I'm going to bang on: data. Critical. This is a big one, a real big one right now. You know, we are
asking -- now we're getting better, but we were asking schools to include students, but the teachers, you know, weren't giving any special preparation. You know, you have the IEP. It says it
right there. Here's the accommodation. There's the SDI. That's all you have to do. But it's not that easy, okay? So we need our parents -- our teachers to feel competent. And I think the
whole environment. And again, you know, we've had great success. And a lot of it has to do at Lebanon because our superintendent has a very positive attitude about just creating a general
feeling of membership. And she just doesn't do it for special education. She creates the whole environment of membership and belonging. Okay. Okay, so this is the tough one, and this is
the big decision, including adapted physical education. How do we determine what level and type of instruction children will receive? Okay. And you know this. We're not a standalone anymore.
And in some districts, I will say it still is, you know, that oh, that's a special education child. We'll let the special education department deal with that. And that's a problem. That's
not good because it should be whatever district. You know, Conestoga Valley School, it is a Conestoga Valley child, you know? This is a warrior, this is a, you know -- and every member of the
building team needs to be accountable for the students, okay? This is absolutely true. And I'm telling you, this is -- and again, you might say, well, you know, this is supposed to be
an adapted physical education. Why are you wandering off in these areas? But it's essential because it's the whole picture. Adapted -- any adapted course doesn't make sense unless we
understand the continuum. And you have to know the child. And you know, I know it sounds like a cliche‚, but it's true, it starts with the IEP team. And the entire instructional team
must be involved. And that's something that you have to push for. I know time is really tough, but even if it's just a five-minute drop in, you know, by the regular education teacher.
Because parents want to know -- and if any of you are parents, you know this feeling. You want to know that that school knows your child. And when a teacher drops in, you know, and makes
some comments and even if it's a little anecdotal to go along with some of the data, you know, it lets the parent know, ah, this person knows my child. They're involved. And that's just so
important. And assessment. And assessment is done by all the staff, regular and special. And that's a step that we have to be taking to get all our staff ready to do that, and across all
content areas. You know, and again, we have to do -- like Becky was saying, it's a requirement, physical education, so we have to validate it as part of the curriculum. You know, some -- and
I know our phys ed teachers are -- I'm not even going to say overburdened, but they have large classes. You know, some people complain about having 22 or 28 in their classes, and here's
people with 50 or 60. You know, and that is a lot. But if we validate physical education, then the teachers will, in turn, realize, hm, then my assessment is important. Not just a checklist,
not did they dress for gym today, but you know, there's steps when they go through all these. Like some of the things Becky showed you earlier. Check them off. Be sure. Have a list so that
you know the child, okay? All righty. So this is my piece about data, okay? I think one of the ways that we can inform parents the best is to give them data, to stay away from the
subjective. You know, I've sat at too many meetings and parents saying, well, you know, tell them about their child's attendance and how many worksheets they finished, but there's no good,
hard data. So, okay, you can hold onto that one just a little bit, Becky, and we'll go here. Good morning, Mr. Repanshek. I'm Dr. Ira Tate, the school district's psychologist. And I'm really
happy that you came in. We want to talk to you a little bit today about your first grade daughter, Guadaloupe. She seems to be having some real social skills problems in school, and she's
the subject of some bullying. Well, thank you, Dr. Tate. Mother and I are concerned as well. We see these things are happening and we appreciate the school working with us. Well, Mr.
Repanshek, let's not mince words. I've reviewed the thoughts of some of the staff. They've given me some information and I've even had a chance to see Guadaloupe once myself. And I believe
it's important to get to the source of the problem before we can deal with it. And sometimes that puts us out of our comfort zone a little bit. And I've come to some conclusions about this.
And very frankly, in my professional opinion, your daughter's quite ugly. Okay, you can put that next one. Quite ugly. Well, I'll tell you, Dr. four eyes, it's no wonder my daughter comes
home crying every day. Where do you come off with that hurtful opinion like that? I'll tell you what, you're going to hear from me, you're going to hear from my lawyer, and your
superintendent is going to hear from the lawyer too. I'm pulling my kid out of this school and I'll tell you what, I see you out of this school, you're going to find out what ugly is.
Okay, you can leave that on there for a minute. Okay, no data involved. Okay, some subjective opinion. Good morning, Mr. Repanshek. I'm Dr. Ira Tate, the district psychologist. Thanks for coming
in. We want to talk about your daughter, Guadaloupe, your first grader. We understand she's having some social anxiety in school and she has been the subject of some bullying. Well, thank
you very much, Dr. Tate. My wife and I are also very concerned and we want to work together to get -- do you know what's at the root of this? Okay, you can go to the next slide. Well,
let me get right to the point. In our district, we believe decisions are made based on actual data and systematic documentation. And I believe you'll be pleased for the most part. Looking at
this chart on Guadaloupe as a first grader, it's incredible. Her teacher report -- as you can see, her weekly reading in math put her in the second grade on all levels. She scored
proficient/advanced in each of the local and state assessments. Every area of achievement that I tested her on was in the 90th and above percentile. And she has an above average intelligence
quotient. You have a bright little daughter. And let me just say that from our nurse's report and from input that you've given as a parent, we see that she has no physical or mental
limitations. Now, also, utilizing all our data, we use our newest research-based assessment, the USU. Okay, using the USU, this research-based, norm-based assessment collection, we collected
a number of things: her cranial proportions, her coloration, her outstanding features. I noticed she has an enlarged proboscis, which obviously is a family trait. And some of her varied
facial expressions. Now also we showed her school photograph, along with those of others, to 100 out-of-state first graders who used the following rubric to respond to her photo. Using
the data that we got and the data from this, let's just see what we came up with here. Okay, we can show our bell curve, our national bell curve. And as you can see, all the data's been
collected and summarized on our scale here. And it's a norm-based, scientific determined. And as you can see, scientifically your little girl, Guadaloupe, falls into the nauseating to
offensive category, okay? The good news is she is not hideous at this time. And you can be assured that, using this data collection, that 85 out of 100 people that would assess Guadaloupe
would find her to be either nauseating or offensive. The good news is, like I said, she is not hideous at this time. But sir, clinically your daughter is quite ugly. Gosh, this is
rather difficult to accept. Her mother and I never expected anything like this. She seems to fit right in with the rest of the family at home. Is there anything you think we can do about
this? Well, Mr. Repanshek, we certainly can help her adjust. You know, our guidance staff has recently received some in service on this very topic. With therapy, perhaps some cosmetic
remediation, I think there's a very good chance she might be able to move up to unsightly category. For her to be fair or cute is an unreasonable expectation for Guadaloupe at this
time. Okay, but I can tell you and I can assure you that we will do the best to build on her strengths and abilities. She has outstanding qualities. And we'll help with these challenges, and
in turn it will minimize the negative interactions with her peers. Well, thanks so much. We don't like this, but I don't know what we would do without you folks here at school. I hope we can
work on this problem of hers together as a team. It's the data, okay? I mean, that certainly was a little bit of an unreasonable example, but the fact of the matter is that data does
make the difference. When you're offering opinion, there's nothing to support it, okay? All teachers have to use the assessment data to drive accommodations, differentiation instruction,
okay? I'll say this, that we at Lebanon, we have, you know, like in many of your districts, a lot of students that are reading well below grade level, you know, when you have your 9th
graders still at the 2nd and 3rd grade reading level, well, it's no wonder they can't succeed in any of their subjects. Okay, because they have this, you know, these poor, poor reading
skills. Now, do we know why? Right now, we're getting good at collecting some general data. Okay, finding out, well, here's their words per minute. You know, here's their speed. Here's
their ability to write, you know. But do we really know what the problem is? We went through some training on the core assessment. And core assessment is great. It digs deep into why a
student can't read. Not just that they're only reading, you know, 25 words per three minutes, but it tells you, you know, phonologically where they're suffering in their decoding, you know,
their vocabulary skills. And this is what we have to be doing in all subjects. And this is what we're doing in physical education as well. They need to follow the same patterns of
consideration and evaluating. And when you have that data, when you have that data, then it's easier to make that decision, what supplementary aids and services the child will need, and what
level of service. But if you don't have that data, then you're, you know, shooting from the hip. Okay? We have to prepare competent and confident educators, okay? There's a lot of things
going on. One of the greatest things that happened recently is requiring -- is it 12 credits now, Becky? I think it might be 12 credits of content area study for -- when a student comes
through a special education program, a college program. I think the goal is to have you come through with at least one content area certification. But there has to be, you know, more of
that. There has to be a greater emphasis on data collection, strategic planning, scaffolding, and differentiating instruction. Okay, that's what the colleges and universities can do,
okay? School districts, targeted professional development. And I know professional development time is dear. I had to fight for every hour I could get. But you can only fight for it when you
can tell what the importance of it will be, okay? It starts with, you know, if your districts aren't there with, you know, the IEP awareness, implementation, and the assessment data driven
planning. All righty? Okay, we have to, as instructional leaders, we have to make every area of the curriculum important, not just what's evaluated on the PSSA. And hopefully, you know, I
think we're starting to see the pendulum swing the other way a little bit now, and that's sweet. You know, having a daughter who's a music teacher makes me feel good about that too, you
know, that there's -- we're swinging back a little more. You know, it broke my heart to see when they -- you know, at our high school and our middle school, when they closed the -- well,
it's not home economics. What is it now? REBECCA FOGLE: Family consumer science. FRANK REPANSHEK: Family consumer science. But, well, but they closed the home economics classes, you know?
And you know, and they filled them with a math or an English class. No, you know, problems with math or English, but students need to be globally skilled. These are critical. Parents need to
be assured that their child is viewed as an individual, that they know their child. That's essential, okay? That we have data to support, even if they don't agree with the data. But let me
tell you, even based on Dr. Ita Tate, it's a lot easier to disagree with an opinion than it is with facts and with data. You know, data in that -- you know, data can be turned around and
read in just about any way you want, but you have to have that. If you have that, not only do you have the real information, but parents again say, they know my child. That we're
prepared to offer the level and type of support, the best -- we have to be prepared. We have to have it. Again, not -- we're an inclusive school district. Look, we have all these kids, you
know, in regular education. They're suffering. They're not doing well. But they're there. okay? And the parents want to be assured that our team is knowledgeable. And this goes back to our
professional development, helping our teachers know so that they can demonstrate that they know the child. Okay? All right, now most of us want to do these things. We want to build parent
confidence. We want to avoid legal complaints. And I'm telling you, if you do these things, it will do that. Do you want to build a genuine IEP team? Okay. And let me know if you've ever
heard any of these at an IEP meeting. I have 28 other children. I have no time for Pedro. Okay, we hear that one. I just wasn't trained to deal with this type of child. I don't think public
school is a place for Mary. All right, this one. And you know what? Unfortunately, this comes from -- now it's dated, but it comes from a guy in my school district. A heart of gold. He
would not let a child fail. He would not differentiate their instruction. He would not teach it separately. But Carl won't fail. I'll just adjust his grade at the end of the marking period.
So Carl would fail everything. But you know what, Carl? You came every day, you gave it a good shot. I'm giving you a C. And that was a poor reflection. And you know, I'm not -- there's a
lot of people that are pretty paranoid over litigation. Maybe I should be more paranoid, but I'm not. But you know, you hear a lot of things now, I guess some of the highest cases coming up
now are students that are graduating and unprepared, and we're being held accountable. Sharon's a pretty little girl and she does try, but she has trouble with some things. What did this
tell a parent? Daughter's a pretty little girl. Okay, you go to the doctor and you take your child to the doctor. Your child, you know, is burning up, they're hobbling, and the doctor says,
oh, your child's sick. They have a fever and they seem to be in pain. Well, that's one of those no shit moments, you know? Because, you know, you knew all that. Tell me why. Tell me why my
daughter has a fever. Tell me why she's hobbling. You know, tell me why she's sick. But let me tell you, if we're doing this and accepting this, then that's just what we're doing to a
parent. Your child's not learning. They're not so smart. But we didn't tell them a thing about why or what we're going to do about it. So is there a place for adapted physical education in
the continuum of services? Absolutely, there certainly is. But it's -- again, I'll tell you it's just like the continuum for everything else, okay? Do we need effective, adapted instruction
across the entire curriculum. Yes, definitely. Okay. Now this is a good question, okay? What service? But you know, and again, you have to be -- there's some people that kind of skirt the
rule. You know, they have their life skill kids sit on the bench, you know, watching the other kids play dodge ball. And then they say, well, we've got our kids right there in gym class with
all the other kids. They're included. You know, I don't think they're included. You know, do you put them out on the floor and let them play dodge ball with the other kids when, you know,
maybe one student's not walking well, or a student doesn't have a clear idea that this kid with a ball isn't his friend right now? You know, so does it need to occur in a segregated
setting. And that's the usual political answer, but that is a decision for the IEP team. But I'm going to tell you that if we do all the things we talked about, we give proper training, we
do good data collection, we do good professional development, that will be needed less and less because we're going to know what we're doing. And we're not just going to be throwing a kid in
the class, but we're going to know the instruction we're giving them and be prepared to give them good adapted education. So I think that's it for me. Okay, any questions from you
folks? REBECCA FOGLE: You did such a good job, there's not even questions. FRANK REPANSHEK: Nobody's interested in lunch. AUDIENCE MEMBER: Quick question. If I have students who are
18 to 21 and involved in a work program, do they still need physical education if you're special ed and they're staying until they're 21? REBECCA FOGLE: Right. Well, again, that goes back to what I mentioned. If you're
providing physical education for all students who are 18 to 21 in a general ed curriculum, obviously not. So then it reverts to it's an IEP team decision. So if the team -- AUDIENCE
MEMBER: So those kids actually can be excluded. REBECCA FOGLE: Well, I wouldn't say excluded isn't the correct terminology. If they've met their PE requirements through school, through high
school, they've done everything that is expected from the general education curriculum and now they're in a transition program like a work-based program, then it's an IEP team decision. And
if the IEP team agrees that, in order to receive FAPE, the student needs to be doing this, this, this, and this, it may or may not include physical education. AUDIENCE MEMBER: So that we
leave it up to the team. REBECCA FOGLE: As long as you have provided everything the same as you have for every other general education student. FRANK REPANSHEK: And I think that's pretty
good -- it's a very good question because, you know, you may get different opinions on that, but I'm pretty sure that that's kind of the way it is, that your IEP team is the one that's
making the educational decisions for the child. If the IEP team decides in the best interest of the child's IEP that you need to override one of the -- you know, like we have done this with
modified curriculum. You know, we're supposed to have 28 credits for graduation. Credits can be waived if it's done properly through the IEP team. But you know, you have to watch for that
too and you make sure that you have parental agreement on that because you don't want to be -- REBECCA FOGLE: And make sure that you're not doing it just because you're taking the easy way
out. It really needs to be based on something, so don't do that lightly. FRANK REPANSHEK: Yeah. AUDIENCE MEMBER: Is there a school of thought where they challenge [inaudible] in the phys
ed environment? REBECCA FOGLE: You know what? Martin Block did talk about that in his session earlier, and that was one of the things that he suggested as a short part of a PE unit might
be to say, you know what, today we're all going to play volleyball with blindfolds on because we're going to kind of get an idea of what it feels like for Joey over here. He did say he
wouldn't recommend doing that for like a whole unit, like a three-week unit, because you're going to turn kids, you know, way off. But just as an awareness piece. I know Dr. Laura
Lieberman, who spoke at our Low Incidence Institute, talked about having sighted kids blindfold and play the game goal ball with a visually impaired team, who pretty much kicked their butts
because, you know, they were really good at that. So that's another example of that. So again, there's no legislation that says to do that, but it certainly is something that you could entertain
in your program and probably is a good idea to consider, yeah. AUDIENCE MEMBER: The resources that you had mentioned at the website, do they include 'the how' that I can actually
present this to an instructor to say these are some things to consider? REBECCA FOGLE: Right, right. The question is -- I should have repeated that because I'm sure they're not picking that
up. The question is about the resources. Does that actually give some of the how? It does. If you go to the resource section, there's a lot of professional -- like PE central, for instance, if
there are PE teachers in the audience that are familiar with that, that you can go in. There's like lesson plans available. There's suggestions, adapted equipment examples, things like that.
So there is some of that. If that doesn't give you the exact things you need, you could certainly contact one of us, and our contact information is also on that page. And although I am not a
professional physical educator, I'll make that very clear, I could bring that to the folks on our council who are, and try to help get that information that you need. FRANK REPANSHEK:
And that's another really good point because, you know, it's often that the how is what we get stuck on. You know, it's -- you know, okay, we're pretty good at data collection. We know what
the problem is. Now what are we going to do about it? And you know, so if you're not satisfied, if you're not satisfied with the hows, maybe this is what this committee needs to be pressured to
do. You know, it's okay. We've got our assessments down. We know how to identify the students. Now let's get examples so you can share with teachers. Because that's really where we're
weak. REBECCA FOGLE: Sure. And one of the concerns that comes up regularly is that sometimes physical education teachers don't feel qualified to provide that adapted service because they've
had very little or no training themselves. In Pennsylvania, if you are a certified physical education teacher, you are qualified to provide adapted phys ed. However, there is an additional
certification called a CAPE, certified adapted physical educator, that is the real specialty area. But it is not a legal requirement in Pennsylvania to teach that subject. And they're pretty
few and far between. I mean, they are really the experts. So if you happen to have someone in your district or your IU who is a CAPE, that might be your internal professional
development piece because that person does have that training and can maybe assist their colleagues. Or even if there's someone in a neighboring district. Martin Block also talked about
maybe if you know of where there's a really successful, good program trying to get the physical educator release time to go and spend some time with the person who's actually providing that
service and showing some positive ways to do that. So yeah. AUDIENCE MEMBER: Does this training include how to write IEP goals? REBECCA FOGLE: If you're the certified adapted PE person,
yes. AUDIENCE MEMBER: How would a parent know if those goals are appropriate? REBECCA FOGLE: Well, it would be like any other goal in the IEP. AUDIENCE MEMBER: [inaudible] data that
they've been giving and things like that. REBECCA FOGLE: Just like if it were a reading goal or a math goal. You know, how did they know that that's appropriate? It would be the exact same
thing. AUDIENCE MEMBER: So as a parent [inaudible] if I have the IEP meeting or an evaluation coming up, I'm reading these adapted PE goals. And so in order for me to understand why they're
on there, I would need to ask for -- REBECCA FOGLE: I think the question would be based on -- what is this goal based on? What's my son or daughter's baseline level? Where are they at
right now? And what makes this a skill deficit that we need to work on? Just like if it were reading -- AUDIENCE MEMBER: Compare it to the standards. REBECCA FOGLE: Excellent suggestion.
Thank you, Trisha. AUDIENCE MEMBER: That means the parents have to be familiar with all the standards if you want to assure yourself. REBECCA FOGLE: So as a parent, maybe ask the
question, is this based on -- is it related to the standards? You certainly could ask that without knowing them. You might have to be trusting then to know if they tell you yes. And also
what is it based on? What information have you collected? What's -- you know, what makes this the skill deficit area that my child needs? AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, even depending on the child's,
you know, age, what you or the child may be interested in. What kind of skill do you want adapted in physical education? REBECCA FOGLE: Correct. Just so they pick that up on the tape, the
other suggestion is that it might be related to the age of the student. What's the interest of that student? What's appropriate for a first grader might be different than for a student in a
transition program who's 18 or 19. Good point. AUDIENCE MEMBER: How would a parent know what would be -- I mean, because it's not a developmental thing. AUDIENCE MEMBER:
[inaudible] REBECCA FOGLE: Right, the discussion is about how a parent would know that. So if it's an interest thing, then that would be -- might be on an interest inventory or just something
amongst your family, right. AUDIENCE MEMBER: So if you decide you want your child to be able to play t-ball and baseball and stuff. So they would -- they would tailor those goals to those
skills needed for that? REBECCA FOGLE: Well, you might have to talk to the PE teacher about what is the -- what's the standard, what's the unit that we do in that grade level. And they may
have to figure out a way to do that. And again, Martin Block talked about ways to combine different areas into one. You might -- when his video is up, you might want to watch that and take a
look at that because he did give some very specific examples about ways to do that that might be helpful to parents. It's a good suggestion. FRANK REPANSHEK: But that's -- you know what? That
was very good. Because that is important. You know what? Because we -- AUDIENCE MEMBER: [inaudible]. So when it comes to the adapted PE, I'm really lost. FRANK REPANSHEK: But you know,
you sound like a reasonable person that you're not going to offend anybody. I don't know what you're like -- AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm very flexible with people, especially when I feel like they
don't really know that they're really not prepared or trained to really understand the whole picture. FRANK REPANSHEK: Right, yeah. But you know, to ask -- there's nothing wrong with putting
someone on the spot, on any goal, on what information and what data are you basing this goal? I mean, that's a really good question to ask. Because if not, then we're screwing up because
then we don't have the data. So that's probably a question that I ought to be asking teachers at IEP meetings. AUDIENCE MEMBER: Well, the PE teacher isn't at the IEP meetings and he's not on
the list of invitees. [inaudible] ask all these service people that weren't on there to be included. REBECCA FOGLE: So the question here is if the PE teacher is not a part of the IEP team,
you may want to put that request in writing that I would like the PE teacher to give some input. Certainly. AUDIENCE MEMBER: I have asked that. [inaudible]. The special ed teacher, well, you
know, we'll ask, but I don't -- I can't guarantee you're going to get it. Well, I asked for it. REBECCA FOGLE: Yeah. You know what? That is such a specific to you question. I don't mean to
cut you off, seriously, but we need to wrap up the session here. And you might want to talk to some of the parent consultants in our office for some more specific recommendations on your
particular question. PRESENTER: So Frank and Becky, thank you very much. REBECCA FOGLE: Thank you all. Thank you for being here.